SIGCE009 - How to use Amazon PPC and DSP Side-by-Side with Matt Altman

Amazon Pay-Per-Click (PPC) and Demand-Side Platforms (DSP) are two of the most popular advertising platforms for ecommerce businesses. Both platforms offer a unique set of features and benefits, which can make it difficult to decide which one to use. They both have their pros and cons, but if you know the right techniques, they can be used together to create a very powerful marketing campaign. In this episode, we have Matt Altman to unveil the strategies on how to leverage both Amazon PPC & DSP to develop a well-rounded advertising strategy that will help you achieve your business goals.


Topics Covered in This Episode

  • About Matt Altman
  • PPC & DSP Intro
  • Mindset of Amazon Sellers: Building a Brand (Long-term) vs. Making 7-figures (Short-term)
  • How to Work with a Limited Budget
  • How to use PPC & DSP Side-by-Side
  • Cost-per-Click, Campaign Structures, & Retargeting
  • Trends, Search Terms & Keywords, & Making Changes to Listings
  • Question & Answer

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Podcast Transcription

[00:00:00] Do you want your product seen by more buyers on Amazon, Etsy and other marketplaces? Do you want to get more traffic, make more sales and scale your brand? Welcome to the Signalytics Podcast - Signal Code Unlocked, where we discuss what signals are needed to send to your customers, to the algorithms, to the ad platforms in order to get your product seen, converting and profiting fast. With your host, former top 50 seller on all of Amazon the Professor Howard Thai, this is the Signalytics Podcast - Signal Code Unlocked.

[00:00:38] Okay. Assalamualaikum and Hello everyone. And thank you for joining us today. And we have Matt today. Thank you so much for taking your time out. Yeah, it's great to be here. Awesome. And thank you for Baldwin, yep. Awesome. All right. So Matt, like, we would like to hear a little bit about your background. Like how did you started the Amazon thing and what you are like doing currently in the Amazon space?

[00:01:07] Yeah, so I, I actually started on Amazon. Would've been about 12 years ago, really mainly focused on reselling college textbooks and kind of dabbling in some retail arbitrage. After I got outta college, kind of doubled down on that and continued kind of scaling retail arbitrage at scale, until I had enough money to, to start launching my own private label products.

[00:01:32] And from about 2013 on then selling private label on Amazon, mainly in the supplement niche. And then about four years ago, we started a Amazon agency really to kind of targeting larger brands as a whole more like senior companies that like Proctor and gamble and things like that, that weren't really optimizing for Amazon and providing them the necessary tools to help bump their listings.

[00:01:58] All right. Great. Awesome. So when did you meet Howard and Baldwin. Actually, I, I met Howard in Miami, Miami. It would've been almost actually four years ago as well. We went to one of his events that he had held there and been hanging out with him ever since. All right. Awesome. Awesome. So like I have read somewhere that you are currently managing like 250 million portfolio by year.

[00:02:29] Yep. We, we actively are right now across about 70 clients. Awesome. So back to our topic today, we would love to hear from you, like how do PPC and DSP side by side . Yeah, definitely. So I would say really the, the biggest thing that we do with all of our clients, we, we really don't recommend DSP to them until they've kind of tapped out everything they can with sponsored products and sponsored brand.

[00:02:58] For most of our clients, I would say like 60 to 70% of them, we just set up basic retargeting, DSP. They, they really don't have the budgets to spend on big multi-level campaigns within DSP. And they're just not gonna get the results that they actually want at the end of the day. But we kind of take a, a different approach overall to how we run PPC.

[00:03:21] A lot of our products and companies that we work with really fall into the consumer product, good space. And they're all replenishable usually falling between like every two to three months. The customers will usually reorder. That's when their average like subscribe and save period will be. So really what we focus on.

[00:03:41] And I, I don't think there's many out there, what do is we calculate their LTV value and we spend full funnel across all Amazon ads based on the LTV of our customers. Really, I think what this allows us to do is like, in our supplements, we know the average customer is worth about $250 to us. So we're willing to pay up to $160 per acquisition, which means our, ACoS or TACoS.

[00:04:09] Like everything is gonna be through the roof. And most people won't really look at it like that, but most people on Amazon aren't trying to build long term brands. They're just looking for quick cash. So it kind of gives us an advantage because we can move more velocity than them because we're willing to pay more per acquisition.

[00:04:26] And we're willing to go into the whole at the beginning where others aren't. So we do strongly recommend if you have any type of replenishable to really look at these numbers and dig deeper and make sure you're, you're maximizing your true potential. Do you feel that the mindset for normal Amazon sellers needs to change?

[00:04:52] Instead of doing the quick, I guess, quick wins or quick, low ROI and low ROAS, or high ROAS, that they need to be more educated in terms of how to build a brand instead of just how to make your first yeah seven figures or something. A hundred percent. Yeah. I would like to add, here in Pakistan, so we have a large Pakistan sellers and they are after and controlling and they, you can say.

[00:05:36] Towards these numbers. And so thinking long term, so this is happening at . So, so I believe you, the Amazon is the long of the short. Yeah, definitely from basically what we've seen is the, the days of kind of black hating your way to the top and writing that out is, is over as a whole, unless you have hundreds of Amazon accounts.

[00:06:03] So it's, it's really all about building that brand now and once you have a bunch of subscribing sales, it's really hard to knock you off of top rankings. Like a couple of our, our better selling products we have over 40,000 subscribing sales a month that go out. No, one's gonna touch our velocity because their subscribing saves are nowhere near what ours are.

[00:06:26] I got a question regarding, since your clients are more high, like big, Big brand, big corporation, like Proctor and gamble for DSP. Do you find that it's easier to kind of sell your clients on that because they're used to spending for impression like a cheap impression rate, do you think it's easier to sell your clients on those rather than the average Amazon seller?

[00:06:58] Yeah. So. I would say, yes, it is easier to sell it into these people, mainly because they are used to buying these. I would say most of our clients when they come on, they're buying DSP directly through Amazon managed services and they don't realize all the hidden fees in there. And really they're, they're spending two to three times what they should be on DSP because.

[00:07:20] Amazon managed services is awful at running DSP, from everything we've seen. Yeah. So we usually pull things back and show them the proper way, but we also do have Amazon marketing cloud now fully enabled as well. So we're seeing a lot better insights into what DSP is doing and being able to prove those touch points out.

[00:07:40] Most of our campaigns, if you would just look at them in the DSP platform, you would see horrible ROAS. And really most, most companies would probably cut it after two to three months. But with marketing cloud, we can actually see that performance and what it's doing on down the line and how it's helping to build the brand 

[00:08:01] So we have Howard here. Hey, Howard. Hi. I just got to Switzerland, Interlaken. I believe it is something like that. So, I was trying to get everything ready. Sorry for being late, but yeah, you guys could continue while I catch up. All right. Great. So, Matt, we have two like limited knowledge on the PPC in Pakistan.

[00:08:29] Would you just tell them how to work there on like PPC and if they, if they use DSP or not. Sorry, can you repeat that? I got like every other word from it. Oh, so I'm, I'm I'm requesting what will be your take on for the, for budget sellers on PPC side, like we have too many seller who has limited budgets. So what are your information for them?

[00:09:01] So if you're working with a very limited budget, you really, honestly, it starts at your product selection and making sure you're, you're selecting. Products that you're gonna launch that you can actually put that budget behind and make it work. If you're already in a product. And you, you realize that you don't have the budgets to really compete there.

[00:09:22] What we usually do is focus on some longer tail, very low volume, like anywhere from 700 to like 1500 searches per month. And really just try and dominate those top placements for those key terms and work on building them up. The bigger thing that we've been doing though, too, that kind of plays into this.

[00:09:42] And I would highly recommend it for someone on a small budget is outside SEO and back linking to your Amazon listings. If it, if it's done correctly, you can build a pretty deep mode. Like there's an account that we were auditing here. Recently. We noticed they sell a acne blemish patch. There's a lot of them on Amazon right now.

[00:10:03] Hundreds of different. But they were outselling the second bestseller by almost 60,000 units per month. And we, we couldn't figure out why we pulled all of their Google rankings for their listing. And they ranked number one in Google, organically to their Amazon listing for 197 keywords, which per, which pushed 59,000 people to their listing per month.

[00:10:24] So it basically made up that difference in sales that we were seeing. All right. What would be the, the low price products? How PPC on the low price? We, this is pain point. We have a community here in Pakistan. Yeah, on low price point products, we, we really don't even recommend getting into them unless it's a consumable that you can do that repeat purchase on if there's no repeat purchase and it's like $15, you're gonna have a hard time, no matter what, there there's really no way around that unless you have deep pockets.

[00:11:05] So if it is replenishable though, Like I, I said earlier, we, we look at those LTVs and we always spend towards the LTV, but on cheap products, you're still gonna have to basically lose money for four to six months until those subscriptions and everything build up. So like, like what is your, for the product, our price points.

[00:11:26] So most of the products that we sell are anywhere between 17.99 to like 29.99, on average, it's about 21 to $22 per. Because we do get a lot of people that are buying multiple units per order. All right. Great. But, but we, we focus too. I, I think part of like when you're creating these products is. Really looking at like supplements for an example, you'll see a lot of people go super big and they'll do like a 270 count, like 360 count where it's a three to four months kind of use cycle of that.

[00:12:01] What we've done is we still go down to the lowest units. So we'll do 30 counts and 60 counts because we want that more frequent purchase to keep pushing our sales velocity up higher and higher on the listing where we would get four orders and the timeframe that that person would get basically one. I think Zeeshan trip froze or no.

[00:12:20] Okay. Nevermind. He's however, maybe you wanna jump in what happened, Zeeshan frozen. Just you wanna ask questions? Continue. I think Zeeshan has the internet problem for, for a while now. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, the topic is how to use Amazon PPC and DSP side by side. Maybe you can give us a little bit of insight on how you would do that, because there's this thing about overlapping or double attribution that a lot of DSP people are kind of, or people who know about DSP are kind of, you know, just worried about not worried about, but it's, it is a issue.

[00:13:07] So what do you think about that? Yeah. I mean, for, for the overlap. I mean, honestly, we, we don't really think about it too much. As long as you're setting up your campaigns and doing things correctly, you, you can really control it. Like you have overlap on any channel. Facebook audiences will overlap, talk all of that really at.

[00:13:28] At the end of the day, we're, we're looking at what is the bottom line on our cost to acquire a customer on everything that we're spending? No matter if it's on DSP, Facebook, Amazon, everything combined. And what is our goal? Target CPA to acquire a customer as long as we're beating or exceeding those expectations.

[00:13:47] We're, we're continuing to increase the volume across all of those channels. Really though on, on the DSP side, I, I think the, the biggest mistake that we see is we have a lot of people that come to us and they wanna run DSP while keeping a lot of their sponsored display campaigns running. Those do have super high overlap if you have very similar audiences across them.

[00:14:11] So we usually always audit that first and, and dig a little bit deeper. But outside of that, we, we really don’t worry about it too much. I think the, the biggest thing that we do when we're looking at DSP is really like in market segments and, and finding what those customers are, are actually buying. I think a lot of DSP kind of agencies do this, but I don't think Amazon sellers as a whole actually look at this and really building that customer persona.

[00:14:41] Like if you're selling a prenatal vitamin, what else is that woman going to be? Before she buys those prenatal vitamins, making sure you're hitting these people at each of those checkpoints along the way. So you're gonna be advertising on like baby swallow blankets. You're gonna be advertising on strollers, baby food.

[00:14:57] Like all of these things that come back to that where you may just do like a category wide targeting NDS P we get very, very product specific when we're kind of running those as a whole. Because if you just go category wide, you can get a lot of junk in. Yeah, I think that's the power of DSP that a lot of people don't realize it's you can focus, target your audiences.

[00:15:24] Maybe you can. So a lot of people in Pakistan, maybe they have misconceptions or false ideas of whether it's campaign structure or what you. I should focus on in terms of PPC, what do you think will help just the basic audience in Pakistan to understand regarding just cost per click and campaign structures?

[00:15:55] Yeah, so really. We run a lot of our campaigns and single keyword groupings, just to make sure that we're maximizing the potential of everything that we're running. It, it works well on small budgets and large budgets. The main thing though is as you kind of scale, you definitely have to have some sort of software or you’re really good at Excel macro.

[00:16:17] That's keeping up with those, those bids for you. But we really focus on keywords that are driving sales and. This is something that you can really pull the data on now using the search query report that comes through in brand analytics and overlaying the actual brand analytics data for those keywords, you can know exactly how many units each keyword is moving for those like top sellers as well as yourself.

[00:16:42] And then you can make sure that you're only really targeting those keywords that are transactional keywords and not discovery keywords. If you have that limited budget and wanna maximize your sales as much as possible, a lot of times though, like you will see that those cost per clicks on those high sales volume terms are obviously high, but there are a lot of longer tails that build off of that, that you can go and look for and helium 10 and other softwares, and use those to really build out your campaigns and spread it wide.

[00:17:11] on a pretty low budget. Okay, Howard, is there any, anything that you feel like we should ask Matt? That since he's here, can you, can you hear me? Yes. All right. So like at what point you would suggest to use DSP. Honestly, really, you should only start looking at a DSP once you've reached a cap on spend on sponsored product, sponsored brands, because now with sponsored display, you can run most basic retargeting and things through that.

[00:17:45] You don't actually need to have a DSP campaign set up. I, I think the another big mistake we see is people jump into DSP too early before they truly maximized what they can spend on sponsored products, sponsored brands because DSP is not gonna give you instant sales and instant growth. You're you're gonna have to wait it out for a few months before you start seeing true returns on that type of spend.

[00:18:10] so it, it really depends on the category. Like we had one account where our kind of maximum spend per month back in, like December was around 40 to $50,000 a month. We couldn't spend above it, no matter what we bid or what we set the budgets up to. So we started running DSP on it. We were actually able to then increase our sponsored products and sponsored brand spend another 10 to 15,000 a month after running DSP because of how many other new categories we started becoming relevant for because of these DSP ads, our ads on sponsored products started serving more frequently for these kind of more category terms.

[00:18:49] So I would say, just spend on sponsored products and sponsored brands until you kind of hit that upper limit. And how do you decide that this is the upper limit is cap. Yeah, really? For us, we've seen every single time. Like you will, you will not be able to spend your, your budgets. Like it, it just, even if you're bidding $20 per click and you're getting a hundred percent top of search share a voice, it just, you can't spend anymore.

[00:19:18] Unless it's a holiday period or something like that. So. It's pretty easy once you actually hit them. And it's a lot higher than what you think on, on most products. So Matt, for the DSP, do you guys do a lot of testing? You know how like DSP there's like so many things you could do right now that only have cool stuff.

[00:19:38] So tell us about it. What you do. Yeah. Yeah. So right now on DSP, we're doing actually a lot of whole foods market DSP. So we're actually pushing DSP towards our whole foods listings on Amazon, through whole foods, kind of fresh, actually, that's where we're seeing the, the best returns by far for all of our DSP spend.

[00:19:57] So pretty cool. We're also running a lot of their audio ads, which. It's not a, that new it's I think like a couple years old now at this point, but not many people run audio DSP at all. So they bought a pretty big podcast network about a year and a half ago. And you can stream across those pretty frequently.

[00:20:18] And then. The other one that we do a lot of is fire tab. So we do fire tab takeovers with DSP quite a bit, mostly because you can get them pretty cheap at the end of the day. And it's great to get into like households that have kids and are buying kind of snack food items, which a lot of our clients sell.

[00:20:37] Have you played around with any of the Twitch advertising yet? We've honestly, we've run them. We haven't had great success on them as a whole. I think it's, it's a very specific audience that will perform well with those. But we do run our own OTT ads outside of Amazon that push to Amazon. I mean, we actually, we actually a lot of the weathering and location DSP works really well for.

[00:21:10] so like maybe temperature, the umbrellas or some other products that will require like with higher temperature, it sells better things like that. It's pretty good. Yeah. And we we've seen too, there's a lot you can do with like whole foods targeting where you can actually, if you, if the end user is scanning their Amazon app at the whole foods checkout.

[00:21:35] All of their buyer data from whole foods is also available to serve ads against DSP. So like if you sell a seasoning salt, you can actually see people that bought steaks within whole foods within the past 30 days and things like that. So you can start to target these people. well, that's pretty, that's pretty powerful.

[00:21:56] Yep. Work on like on the kitchen niche product, you are in to supplements. So. At DSP a few, it is more powerful in the or it is like more powerful in the kitchen. Cause mostly kitchen niche. I, I would say it's just as powerful in each. If you're doing your targeting correctly. We when we are running supplements, we're, we're looking not only at like categories, but we're looking at like, we ha we have VAs that go and search blogs to see kind of what supplement stacks people are taking to make sure that we're advertising our supplement against the other right supplements that people should be taking together.

[00:22:43] And things like that. We also have people that listen to podcasts and are poll. Like on Joe Rogan, if they recommend certain supplements, but we're gonna start pushing that week, how we're gonna start shifting our ads, because we know there's gonna be a search volume surge and whatever supplement Joe Rogan mentioned that week and things like that.

[00:23:00] But really, as long as you're targeting's right, it'll it'll work on anything.

[00:23:08] Okay. And what's your experience? Sorry, say that again. What's your experience on it? In, in general, just have your, your audience correctly set. I mean, most of DSP, the foundation is you're retargeting. You targeting will capture a lot of your sales and then when you're feeding in audiences from, I guess kind of middle of the funnel in, in market audience or audience base, you're just feeding your listing.

[00:23:51] Basically you you're driving just the eyeballs onto your detail page route. Then you're remarketing will kick in and basically capture your correct audience. So I think just building up your foundation of retargeting and then playing around, just so start targeting, testing, different audiences, seeing how that works and seeing how your remarketing reacts to your, your middle of the funnel approach.

[00:24:25] All right. So, Matt, what, what is your suggestion on the PPC? Is it or what do you think? Look on. So we don't look at any of those things on most of our accounts, because we're really going after what is our conversion rate and what is our CPA that we're targeting? A lot of people don't look at CPA cuz you have to calculate that outside of the ads manager.

[00:24:55] But like we use pack view to manage a lot of our ads, a calculates it in real time and we can make AI based adjustments on that. But. The biggest thing we look at is conversion rate. As long as my conversion rate is in the middle or beating the top and brand analytics day by day, we keep pushing those ads until we start to see a decrease or we're ranking number one, or number two organically.

[00:25:19] And then we'll start to pull things back and really that's then probably our biggest growth lever is forgetting about tacos and a cost, and really focusing on driving as much philosophy by keyword and keeping those conversion rates as high as you possibly. Mm-hmm like if there's a keyword that we spend, like a great example of this in a product that we just launched, we were spending almost $4,000 a day on a single keyword.

[00:25:45] We basically found out that no matter what we did, however, we optimized the listing. We cannot get a conversion rate above 8% where the top three and brand analytics were all converting above 20%. So we've decided to just kill that keyword, even though it is the main keyword for the product that we were going after.

[00:26:02] And we may bring it back like three to six months from now, but right now it's doing more to hurt us organically than it is to actually help us since our conversion rate was so low. So what Julie was you that like, what were reason to go up for above 8%? They were big, bad, or they were anything different?

[00:26:24] I I'm, we're actually not sure what was causing it. Not to get above 8%. Like we, we tried changing main images, changing titles. Bullet points, changing price points. We were actually already lower than the competition we had about the same reviews. It really just didn't make sense, um, to be totally honest, but we'll definitely bring it back in and test it here in a few months and see if we can increase that conversion rate.

[00:26:49] But this basically the day we stop spending heavily on that keyword, all of our organic rankings across that category went up about 15. Have you faced any situation like this? Sorry. I don't think we got that. Ha have you faced this kind of same situation? Which, which situation are you talking about?

[00:27:10] Zeeshan. The, the just like you are saying heavy on something, but the conversion is going up. Are you asking me or are you asking Matt? Yeah, I'm asking you, have you felt any kind of situation? Yeah. Yeah. I think there's certain keywords that no matter how hard you push you're, you don't gain well, like it, it's hard to push through.

[00:27:37] I think partly is your relevancy or maybe there's something wrong with your listing. Something needs to be redone or tweaked in terms of whether maybe you're not indexed correctly with the keyword. Yeah. You basically. Like in, in the Shopify world, people talk about CRO conversion rate optimization. I think in the Amazon space, it is very under, under, or not looked at.

[00:28:09] And when people just have their listing, they, they just set it and forget it. They, they don't really optimize for conversion rate, but I think conversion rate is the biggest driver to, to ranking. I, I, I can't express how much, you just have to kind of play with your listing and see if you are pushing a certain set of keywords that are, you think is relevant.

[00:28:39] Make sure your listing is geared towards that conversion rate or conversion for that keyword. All right. And Matt, how do you often make changes in things? How do we, what, how do you often the changes in listings? How often do we make changes? Yeah, we make changes like honestly, every couple days or every few weeks, it really just depends on where we're at in the stage with that product.

[00:29:13] On a, on a newer product, we'll keep it pretty consistent for a few weeks from the get go. Cause it's already pretty optimized for the keywords we're targeting, but after we start ranking for those, and we're holding those rankings, we'll start to switch in other keywords that may be falling behind. On older listings, honestly like once a week.

[00:29:33] And then we usually do a kind of monthly check and see if search trends have changed for that type of product. Because what we've seen is usually every six to nine months, the main search term will change in most categories, or it'll be some variation of what it used to be. All right. So I believe some questions from the audience.

[00:29:58] So cost per click is high and we will be more higher in Q4. So, how do you tackle with cost per click for newly launched products? As conversion is less, see there, there's no way to battle this, like directly going into Q4. The only thing that I would highly recommend, and what we've seen from Amazon marketing stream is top of search placements, basically decrease by 30 to 40% after about six o'clock Pacific time.

[00:30:25] So a lot of people are running out of budgets. You can. Basically day part your campaigns and get some lower cost per clicks and those kind of after hours from like 6:00 PM Pacific to midnight. And hopefully that will decrease it enough for you, but you are missing out on kind of those key sales periods of that like morning and mid to late afternoon.

[00:30:46] So, Matt, what kind of day parting are you doing? Are you doing day partying? oh yeah, we're doing a ton of day partying. So we use, we use pack you to manage everything. So they're completely hooked up through Amazon marketing stream. So we get hourly data on all of the interactions that are happening within our campaigns.

[00:31:04] So we day part and optimized bids based on individual keywords by. Performance throughout the day. We also do incremental campaign budget adjustments based on that day's performance. So we have multiple times throughout the entry day where it's pulling budget from campaigns that are underperforming that day and pushing it towards campaigns that are performing to try and maximize it as much as we possibly can. 

[00:31:30] Has Amazon marketing stream basically opened up your eyes to the audience. Of day parting, I guess, for you. So we had been running it for quite a while. I would say it's definitely given us greater. Insight into the hours that are working. Like for us, we always knew 6:00 AM Pacific to around nine 30 Pacific.

[00:31:54] And then again from about three 30 Pacific to six 30 Pacific were our, our peak hours for every single client. So we did a lot of day partying around that to begin with. But now I think what we're seeing and how we're kind of seeing bids decrease quite a bit, going into the later hours and conversion rate actually increases on some of those.

[00:32:12] And then in the morning, really anything before like 9:00 AM Pacific you're you're wasting your money from what we've seen. Like you're not gonna get conversions. This is interesting. So do you, have you measured anything that you've done recently on the results of the different with the maybe deep day partying with the new, the stream Amazon stream marketing stream?

[00:32:31] Did you see any like really cool data or test cases that you've done? Yeah. So we, we, again, we, we don't really care about ACoS or TACoS on a lot of our campaigns, but we do care about conversion rates. What it allows us to do is really optimize for that prime conversion rate period. And every product has like an hour window, usually in the morning.

[00:32:53] And the afternoon that it is that peak conversion for. So we, we ran a test on a product and for like the number one, I think category on Amazon right now, which was keto snacks basically spent all of our budget for that day, which was about $7,000 on that single keyword within those two hour windows.

[00:33:14] And we had the highest conversion rate we've ever had. So we've actually started. Doing that same thing across all of those keywords that we are really wanting to rank high for organically. And now we're in the top five for every keyword that we targeted over the last two weeks. So you, you talk about conversion rate just as being your prime metric, I guess what, how would you tackle the situation where if you're running PPC for a.

[00:33:47] For one child ASIN, but the other child ASINs are the conversion rate is getting or better. But most of your ads through Amazon's algorithm, if you just target the three ASINs is being shown for the one that's not converting as well. Yeah. I mean, so if you're running ads and Amazon's favoring one ASIN that conversion, rate's always gonna drop, cuz it's getting more traffic than the others.

[00:34:20] The others will almost always get a conversion. If someone clicks it for like, if it's a color variation, they click through on the black, but they want a blue they're basically always gonna convert and you'll have a very high conversion rate. So when we have things like that, we first whole, which ASIN is ranking for that keyword.

[00:34:38] Already or which ASIN is indexing for that. And then we make sure that when we set up those campaigns within those sub ad groups, within that campaign, the ASIN that is ranking for that keyword is the one that we're targeting. If say the blue one is ranking, like say we're selling a blue dress and the, for the keyword, like women's dress, it is the blue one that's ranking.

[00:35:01] We will never run an ad for women's dress besides for that blue variation. Okay. So basically it's just whatever's organically ranking highest or favored by Amazon, correct? I, I mean, at, at the end of the day, like Amazon knows better than what we do at what someone's gonna purchase after searching something.

[00:35:22] So we trust them and, and hope that they're making the right decision for that specific keyword. So I wanted to the audience here doesn't really know what, like too much about the DSP in Pakistan. Can you give examples? What kind of roll offs has you gotten through DSP? Anything that you can like, kinda let them know so that they can kind of see what, like before, just say before a DSP is on and after DSP on maybe the results of that.

[00:35:50] Have you, have you gotten like any case study on that as. Yeah. So basically the, the biggest thing that we see is the increase in subscriptions. So we run a lot of DSP retargeting with subscribe and save coupons. If you're a vendor, you can run straight coupons that only work on subscribe and save. They won't get it unless they subscribe and save.

[00:36:15] You can set up something similar on D S P. What we usually do is set up a product specific. Landing pages through DSP. And we send all basically people that purchased within the, within the last 30 to 60 days to these pages where they can get an extra discount on those subscribing saves on one of the main accounts that we rented on here in the last couple months, their subscribers went from about 4,000 a month to almost 27,000 and a three month period just from running this campaign.

[00:36:44] We spent quite a bit on it. It was almost a a hundred thousand dollars campaign, but we know the LTV of those customers is about $320 give or take. So we're gonna come out ahead quite a bit at the end of the day, once everything's done. So, so most of our clients, they're not like a subscribe and save model, but how would you.

[00:37:09] Build out because on DSP, you can track the SSNs subscribe and save metric, how would you build out campaigns for DSP to increase, subscribe, and save. I mean there, there's a couple different ways to look at this. One is kind of your, your main overarching sub segment within that is you wanna target prime customers, which is like the first thing that you can target on DSP is only showing it to prime customers.

[00:37:37] What we've also seen is you wanna make sure that you're targeting people that are subscribed to other items, which is something that you can filter out as well. And then you want to usually target people that are falling into certain niches. For most of our products, it's family oriented. So we wanna make sure that they have, there's a special subcategory that's Amazon family, and you can run it only towards people that they know have kids or have certain households.

[00:38:04] And then we're starting to layer in those age demographics of those kids, where if we have a certain product that we know, no one be below six years. Each will basically segment out all of those younger kids in the families and only show up the families that have kids six and above, but cap it at like age 12.

[00:38:22] And then usually we're, we're layering in over some kind of like economic demographic of either location on, on where they live. Is it a, a semi wealthy area? Are they driving nice cars? Cause you can layer it all the way down to like car parts they bought in the last certain period, as well as. We probably lost a lot of people just by talking about the weeds in DSP.

[00:38:48] So there's another question. How good does DSP work for smaller brands with like 10 to 15 nations? Do we have any structured content available and how to work on DSP efficiency. I would say for this it like, I, I wouldn't really consider a smaller brand based on the number of ASINs. It'd be more on like what monthly revenue is.

[00:39:13] Cause we have accounts that have five ASINs that do 20, 30 million a month. But what we would really focus on, I I'm guessing if you have a lower budget, is. Actually sponsored display, sponsored display targeting has gotten extremely good. There is a data as well that you can get into that I can send over more information on and it's sponsored brand videos off Amazon.

[00:39:35] So you can actually run OTT DSP now through sponsored brand videos. And that way you can really control your budgets a lot more. You can spend low minimums per day and kind of test over a longer period to make sure you're maximizing every dollar that you're spend. So like one, maybe you can tell 'em about tell audience about how, what, how, what we did on market study regarding the, the weathering and, and location targeting.

[00:40:01] What was the results? I think if you're talking about ROAS, it was super high ranging from 22 to 40 ROAS, just because you are able to specifically target hot places. So if you're selling, let's say something to do with the heat. You. You're able to just basically find the hottest places or places that are going to be hot and preemptively show your ads specifically to that location and build upon that audience where, you know, like people looking for certain things to cool themselves off, or like other products that are related to, to summer or heat, you.

[00:40:56] There's there's a lot of things you can play with. I think we are using Accuweather to really find out all of this information. And it's not just like the temperature it's like air quality or just the likeliness for, for people to mow their lawns. So if you, you sell like weed killer, you know, you know that people are doing yard work there, like this is the.

[00:41:23] Time to do yard work. You can pull data like that. So I think last time I was talking to Matt and all of a sudden, Matt says I'm in Pakistan. Can you tell us about your experience in Pakistan, Matt? Oh yeah. So we actually switched most of our manufacturing to Pakistan for all of our supplements and products in the last six months.

[00:41:44] But in February we had a, a good friend get married in Lahore. So we went to Lahore for three weeks and. Honestly, like I've told every person that we've met you, you have to go to Pakistan. It is the nicest, most friendly people. And like the thought perspective that Americans have is nothing like what it really is.

[00:42:04] It, it's probably one of my favorite places. We're actually going back again here in December. My brother's getting married in Islamabad and we have another trip planned to do a, base camp summit for actually I forget the name of the mountain, but in the Northern part of Pakistan somewhere. So. We'll be there quite a bit in the next year.

[00:42:23] Sounds good. So how, how, how was, how safe is it? You know, like I've, I've heard like stories, you said some stories and some other people said stories, so maybe Zeeshan and then Matt can kind of go and speak about that because we're gonna go to, I think Kevin King wants to come to Pakistan, me and some about a bunch of us.

[00:42:44] So maybe you guys get to kind of give us some heads up. It's extremely safe. Like I walked everywhere in Lahore, like no issues whatsoever with anyone. It's a little startling when you see like AK47s on the back of people on scooters, but super nice. Like, I mean, honestly we would be a prime target.

[00:43:05] If anyone was coming after us, we were driving around in G wagons in Pakistan. I, I don't think it gets any worse than that and no one bothered us at all. Yeah, sure. So, yeah, it it's. If like we have too many ambassadors here, we have too many foreigners here really who visit and who, who eat the food on regular buckets.

[00:43:29] So there is no danger here, like what you are here over there or what you can because, you know, media tells and just fitting their, their that's. It, it is really safe. Regularly, two foreigners coming from all around the world. Their own cities, like in Lahore. So too many people like walking around and eating food, all stuff there.

[00:44:09] So there's no noise, danger thing or danger factor here. Yeah. I, I, I think that actually the biggest thing that was striking to me is every person that we pass, like either wanted a picture with us or, or just to like sit and chat. Like honestly, if you stop and chat with everyone, like you would spend every single day doing that.

[00:44:31] But I, I can't tell you how many homes we got invited to, people we went and had tea with everything. Just great experience. Our, our Matt Altman is, you know, all the, the good looking and everyone wants to take pictures.

[00:44:48] Everyone does no matter, no matter who you are, you you'll see actually, no, that there's a lot of, lot of Chinese coming into Lahore Now. They, they aren't that special anymore. Oh, 

[00:45:00] but I, I mean, honestly, I would highly recommend looking at Pakistan for sourcing products. Like I think every product that we sell personally, we were able to cut our costs almost 30% by sourcing it through Pakistan. I think me and was talking about a sourcing trip, right Zeeshan. Remember to go to yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm setting the foundation for that, having that trip as soon as possible I'm working on it. 

[00:45:30] Is there any last questions guys or, yeah. Okay. Go. For DSP one should be going after the same child ASIN, which is performing well in PPC, or can we target multiple child ASINs? Yeah, usually what we do is we'll we'll target one or two child ASINs with the main ASIN, just to see what happens, origin. But even if you choose to just target the main ASIN, you'll get your brand halo report, which will show you exactly what people are purchasing.

[00:46:05] And then you can update your DSP campaign later on to include more ASINs if you want. So it can be done either way. We haven't really seen too much of an advantage doing it either way. It's just kind of tested and see what works best for your products. Mm-hmm all right. So it was the last. There's only one, one question on my side, we ask our guest fun fact.

[00:46:31] So we, I would like to ask the funniest thing to you in the Amazon space. Sorry. Can you repeat that? What was the funniest thing that happened to you in the Amazon space? Ooh, funny. I, I don't know if anything funny has ever happened to me. Like a, a lot of heartache, I think is the biggest thing. yeah. What most memorable in the atmosphere?

[00:47:01] Most memorable, I would say honestly, like one of the most memorable was recently with, with Howard in Paris. That that was a pretty memorable experience by far, but Miami was fun as well. Had, had a great time in Miami, a lot of interesting characters. Well, yeah, like Paris, we had great time. I was one of my first castle mastermind, so I was like, kind of like wanted to make it really good.

[00:47:26] So, and in Miami we had another, I guess, mansion when we did a ma a mastermind, we, we do it all over the world. So right now, I'm just looking around, maybe even all these places to see if there's any other places to, for the next mastermind. I'm going to Switzerland right now and Amsterdam in a couple more days.

[00:47:44] So there might be some stuff that can intrigue me to have host another mastermind here, around here. Nice. You gotta go see my business partner. He's in Amsterdam. He lives there like, like I said on Facebook, when am I gonna be a business partner? You have so many. I have I have, I have two, that's it. Only two that they come and go

[00:48:10] understand. Okay. Zeeshan you wanna close up? Yeah. So I think there's no question. So let's conclude, so thank you so much, Matt once again. Thank you so much for taking out your time us today. Yeah, it was great to be here. Awesome. Thank you, Matt. Okay, thanks. Thank you. See ya. See you. Bye. Do you want your product seen by more buyers on Amazon, Etsy and other marketplaces? [00:48:44] Do you want to get more traffic, make more sales and scale your brand? Welcome to the Signalytics Podcast - Signal Code Unlocked, where we discuss what signals are needed to send to your customers, to the algorithms, to the ad platforms in order to get your product seen, converting and profiting fast. With your host, former top 50 seller on all of Amazon the Professor Howard Thai, this is the Signalytics Podcast - Signal Code Unlocked.

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